DE - UK unterhalt

[smith00]

Darf ich in English schreiben?
Ich wohne in UK aber bin geschieden und habe ein Liebes sohn in Deutschland.

Ich habe fragen, habe wirklich angst, aber mein deutsch reicht nicht um alles genau zu klären.

DE Bereich NRW (Kevelaer)

danke

[cornelius123]

Hallo Smith!

send me a pn!

Cheers
Cornelius

[smith00]

I cannot find a way to message you?

Found the function, you should have a message cornelius123

[Beppo]

Hi smith00

You find the messenger on the right side of the start page.

Cornelius, you my send him a PN, so smith00 just has to  reply.

But smith, you may ask in english and we try to assist and translate anyway.

Regards Beppo

[cornelius123]

Hi Beppo & Malcolm,

Ich habe versucht ihn zu helfen, aber seine Situation (=**tsts - ID 20**) is zu komplex, dass ich fundierte Hilfe geben konnte.

@Malcolm: Take him up on his offer, if you need me to translate/clarify I would be very happy to do so. You are alone back there in the UK against the hordes of German Justice ;-)

Take care all
Cornilius

[Beppo]

Or just copy the PN to the public forum, if not confidential.

[cornelius123]

Hallo Beppo,

seine Gesichte war sehr persönlich - ich habe ihn gerade eine pn geschrieben, das es das selber tun soll - hier wird er geholfen.

Gute Nacht
Cornelius

[smith00]

Thank you for your help.
I will try and give you all brief picture, the story is unbelievable, even for me! The story can be edited later to remove the bits that are irrelevant or too personal.

Background Intro:
When I lived in Germany, my wife prevented me from visiting my home through false accusations, she had been violently abusive for over 2 years (documented evidence), and I was in a vulnerable situation re-training and receiving hospital & psychological support at the time of the injunction.
Before the appeal date I was given 5 days to move out, I only managed to pick up essentials.  Shortly after that I ended up homeless, I was very ill with the abuse that continued after the breakup, and I saw no option than to seek help and move back to the UK. My wife then divorced me in 2/2008. I then tried various methods of using UK solicitors without success to try and sort out UK-DE problems, they wanted big money which I didn’t have.

Debt:
I managed to pay some of the German debt by cashing in savings (my wife had control of the savings, then went bankrupt?), but I still had debts from my relationship and incurred more debt from the break up, setting up home in the UK to basic standards was very expensive. I borrowed money from my parents until I got the pension money through, I then started to repay all debts with my parents with the BG-pension money. Parents took out a documented bank loan to help.

Problem Now:
I keep getting letters from Germany, the last one was delivered through the English court, I have 30 days to respond. They want to see my whole income including pension (berufsgenossenschaft rente) as I have 30%MdE.
I am afraid that they will not allow me enough money to live on, the UK is more expensive has different calculation systems, my disability means I need to accommodate for the lack of being able to prepare a meal for myself, also I don`t want to end up homeless again. I am unsure how to exercise what rights I have as a UK citizen, who can defend me, and make sure that I have a fighting chance, i never seemed to have any rights in Germany. Can they make me pay if I have little money? I still have an outstanding €3000,00 debt to a German insurance company, which has not been sorted out yet.

Work Situation:
Since moving back to the UK 4/2007, I have been incapacitated or seeking work, my illness is making finding work very difficult, and I am allowed to start working a maximum of 16-18 hours only per week.

[smith00]

It looks like the problem is more complicated than I first thought, I always knew it was a uphill battle from my previous experiences of looking for help.

Even when no one can offer me "one to one" advice here, how do I get this sorted out from the UK so I have some rights?

I feel very alone here in the UK, no one wants to take on this case where I live, I think this is because of my poor financial situation, and the stress burden is taking it's toll on my health again.

My litlte boy is alone in Germany without a father, so much for family orientated procedures, and I will be lucky to see him in the next 15 years!

?

[anfree72]

Hang in there, I'm not one of the specialist here so I cant realy give you much of an advice, but give them some time to respont.

Do you have joint custody? How is your income situation, how much income?
This are usually some standard questions that are beeing ask here in the forum. Post a few more infos.

Andrea

[smith00]

Thank you,

I realised the real severity after a few PN mails, that was the reason for the update.

I do have rights to my son, but money is tight.
I would only be able to disclose income in private if some lawyer could sort this out, as the information is too personal, I am trying to find out the best route to take to sort this whole mess out before they decide to lock me up.

The hardest thing to get my head around, is that there are international agreements etc. but the lawyers I spoke to weren't interested unless a they could earn big bucks, maybe I am just a bit naive, 7-8 years education deserves reward! Maybe the biggest problem in my case is language!

 

EDIT: I did have a lawyer in Germany back then who sorted things out up until my divorce, but I felt overwhelmed by the German documentation which I kept getting, also she seemed to apologise for things to keep the peace when my ex was putting me in abusive situations. I was psychologically ill from the abuse, I cried on most sessions, and she could see that I was unable to react in a manner that a healthy person could.
This is hard to digest I know, but it happened!

[Beppo]

The legal situation in Germany is such a mess, so it is even difficult to get anything solved within Germany.

I can't imagine how to handle that from the UK or anywhere else.

So, I hope, someone will have some information to support you.

Regards Beppo

[smith00]

A mess indeed, the UK is not much better so I hear!

I think I was just used, it was more profitable for my ex to throw me out, go bankrupt to pay off her secret debts (with a child she would be looked after), and then continue to lead a better lifestyle at my cost until my son is 18! Women have all the rights, (Frauenhaus gibt es, aber keinen Männerhaus)!

The system encourages females to split, the financial benefits are cherry pickings for them!

[smith00]

Update:
I now have a list of family Lawyers in NRW from the British Consulate-General Düsseldorf.

If the worst comes, I think I am going to have to be represented in Germany, as there isn't any other guidance on sorting this out from the UK.

I think I have been Scr*wed by a system that is supposed to protect families, and I will continue to be Scr*wed because the system is never wrong!

[Lausebackesmama]

Hi Smith00,

I guess, it would be the best, if you were represented in Germany. As far as I understood, you are out of work and don't get much money. If you are unemployed, you are allowed to keep 770 Euro on your own. All money you get more than that, you have to spend for your child, at least 225 Euro, if it is 5 or younger, 272 Euro between 6-11 years and 334 Euro, if it's 12 or older. If its not possible to get that much, they will make a cut: If you got 900 Euro, they take 130, that what's more than 770 Euro...

You shold try to get a little more than the 770 money excess because of your handicap/illness. Therefore it will be helpful, if you keep a log about your costs who are coherent to it.

If you can give us a survey of your financial situation, we are able to calculate, what might happen. But you have to keep in mind, that the German courts will try to get the minimum rate child support as I told you above.

Greetings, LBM

[smith00]

Thanks,

Do you know if they will take into consideration debts that I had from my marriage, incurred through the separation/injunction, moving to the UK and setting up home in the UK?

I have had to pay this back from the pension.

[Lausebackesmama]

Where in NRW does your kid live? We have to have a look to the Higher Regional Court's guidelines. Basically, the child support precedes other liabilities to pay. But sometimes, there are exceptions. So I can imagine, that your debts that occur to marriage or separation, possibly could be taken into account. Your costs for moving back to the UK, I'm not sure, that they will be taken into account, too.

But your lawyer should try to argue, that it was necessary for you to get back to the UK, so that these costs have been unavoidable.

[smith00]

When my Ex split up from me it was Düsseldorf
She now lives in Kevelaer

Whatever happens, I will be paying money, and maybe paying back what I don't have.

I do hope that they give me a chance!

[Lausebackesmama]

Okay, the Higher Regional Court is Düsseldorf. It's guidelines say, that deductible debts  (I'm not sure if "deductible" is the right word) normally have to be substracted of your income.

Think about giving us some numbers, so we possibly can calculate and estimate, what can happen to you.

[smith00]

It is difficult to give numbers openly here, I could give them in a PN with explanations of my situation.

[smith00]

Lausebackesmama

Do you have an executory tilte for the child support?
As far as I can see, you haven't the ability to pay, because you don't get enough money for yourself. In Germany you call it an abolute "Mangelfall". So the question is: Do you have a title? So you would have debts by the German country. But if you don't have any title, you don't have debts you have to pay back by now. So you are WILLING to pay for your child, but you aren't capable to do so. That's the important difference: you WANT to pay, but you don't have enough money. If you have a title, your lawyer has to start proceedings to get it back. But you have to circumstantiate first, that you are ill / handicaped and that it is not possible for you to work. In German court, legal obligation to get a job and work for child's support is very high, so you have to argue convincingly, that you'll be relieved of the duty to work and pay. It would make sense, to copy what I wrote to the "Forum", so that other people can read and help, too.

[Schmusepapa]

Hi smith00,

I know a case (the wife of a friend of mine) whose former husband got all his debts subtracted from his salary before the child support was calculated. I think this depends on the details of the circumstances for these debts; it is beyond what can be assessed without further information.
Furthermore, the approval of these debts depends on the judge(s) who decide about the child support - it is difficult to predict what might happen.

Regards,

Martin

[smith00]

That is very interesting, I am sure that the judge will have a laugh at my expenses: moving house, carpets, fridge/freezer and a heater. I really hope my lawyer stands up for me when I get one!

I have just written to the Jobcenter to make sure that I do not have to disclose payments from: "Occupational health and safety agency", for "Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit scheme".
There is no mention of this in my jobs seekers agreement, but I am double checking for safety, I am not a "Benefit Cheat".
I will then know what my total earnings are, and will be able to move on with my life!